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Old 08-Apr-2013, 22:03   #1
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Next XBOX reveal due 21st May

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...eports-suggest
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Old 08-Apr-2013, 22:51   #2
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Always-online required. Lol if true.
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Old 08-Apr-2013, 23:43   #3
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Don't really see people's problem with always on-line, it's not like it's gonna sit there download a gig every minute and almost everyone has internet on their phone constantly, what's the difference having it on a console.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 00:26   #4
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People not having internet in their living room? wanting to play games but not be online? That's just two I thought of in the time it took to write them. I'm sure there are more.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 00:28   #5
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Actually let's spin it around. What are the advantages, to the user of always on consoles / DRM? Cheaper? Better?
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 01:07   #6
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Originally Posted by PsYcHoKiLLa View Post
Don't really see people's problem with always on-line, it's not like it's gonna sit there download a gig every minute and almost everyone has internet on their phone constantly, what's the difference having it on a console.
As simply as I can possibly put it: There is more to go wrong. What happens if your internet service goes down for maintenance/repairs/act of God/etc and you just want to play a game to pass the time? What if the game servers go down due to an excess of users, especially on a big games release day? What if you want to go back and play a game from 5+ years ago and you cant because the servers have been disabled for it, despite the fact that there is literally no function for always on other than DRM.

By adding always on DRM to games that really dont require it, youre just adding an unneccessary layer of potential frustration for your customers. CD Projekt RED are one of my favourite companies in terms of DRM simply because they dont use it and have announced that they never will. Their reasoning is that the DRM will be cracked eventually anyway and pirates will get the superior experience as a result. By leaving DRM off their games, they may get a lot more day one pirating than other games, but they also get a happier userbase. Its really working for them as well: They estimate that The Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times, but sold over 6 million copies.

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Actually let's spin it around. What are the advantages, to the user of always on consoles / DRM? Cheaper? Better?
Generally speaking there is no user benefit, certainly in terms of single player games. If you wanted to stretch it a bit, you could argue that always on will reduce piracy in the long run (Which is a bit of a stretch if we are being honest) if it is done right (An even bigger stretch ) which would enable games publishers to lower their prices and increase development budgets thanks to the improved profits. But then you look at companies like EA and Activision and we are very much back in the "bit of a fucking stretch" territory.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 07:12   #7
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As simply as I can possibly put it: There is more to go wrong. What happens if your internet service goes down for maintenance/repairs/act of God/etc and you just want to play a game to pass the time?
Omg what happens if you have a power cut and want to play Xbox ??

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What if the game servers go down due to an excess of users, especially on a big games release day?
Example: COD release day would effect the COD servers but hasn't effected XBL in previous releases.
Why would it effect it now ?

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What if you want to go back and play a game from 5+ years ago and you cant because the servers have been disabled for it, despite the fact that there is literally no function for always on .
You're suggesting each game has its "always online" servers

I would have thought its more simply, got to be signed into XBL to play any content.
Currently you choose to auto sign into XBL now, if you don't you can still play SP games.
But want to play MP or arcade and you need to sign in.
All they're doing is removing this option.



Seriously what are you worried about with always online?
Scared MS may use the kinect camera to look into your lounge/bedroom ?
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 07:24   #8
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 08:37   #9
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You're suggesting each game has its "always online" servers

Scared MS may use the kinect camera to look into your lounge/bedroom ?
No he's suggesting that the console itself requires one to operate and intoning that doing so does the consumer absolutely no favours. Which it will and which it doesn't.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 09:37   #10
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Omg what happens if you have a power cut and want to play Xbox ??
Well thats about as facetious a response as I couldve possibly expected. You NEED power to operate an Xbox. Its not a design choice, its a technological fact. The need for an internet connection has been added in as a design choice and bears no real meaning towards the operation of the game itself. Look at Assassins Creed 2 for example. That game needed an always on connection about as much as it needed you to smear the blood of dead children on your games console.... yet Ubisoft added it anyway and the result was a single player game that was virtually unplayable for the first 2 weeks after release because they couldnt get the servers working properly.


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Example: COD release day would effect the COD servers but hasn't effected XBL in previous releases.
Why would it effect it now ?
Ok now I havent bought a COD game since the original Modern Warfare (and that was on 360) so I may be out of the loop here, but I am completely unaware of COD requiring any servers to play that game. I thought all the multiplayer gaming was done peer to peer and that there was no always on DRM.


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Seriously what are you worried about with always online? Scared MS may use the kinect camera to look into your lounge/bedroom ?
Im not worried about anything Kinect related. Im not buying the new Xbox as my PC is more than enough for me. However lets just be clear on what the rumour is for the Kinects "Always on" functionality: It inspects the environment that it is in to ensure that the console isnt moved often to prevent game sharing. It scans the faces of the people playing to ensure that the game isnt shared with friends. Not only would that be excessive anti consumer measures should that be true, it would also be a gross invasion of privacy.


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No he's suggesting that the console itself requires one to operate and intoning that doing so does the consumer absolutely no favours. Which it will and which it doesn't.
Im actually suggesting that in the case of some of the larger game releases, it could be both. The console would definitely require it should the always on rumours turn out to be true, but if thats the case then theres nothing to stop a large games publisher setting up a similar system to monitor your every move.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 10:11   #11
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If you're not going to buy a new Xbox, why spend so much time and effort in arguing something that doesn't effect you ?

You are out the loop with servers, its working very similar if not the same as PC gaming over several games.
Dedicated servers hosted by the game publisher or user defined dedicated servers hosted by the publisher.

Quote:
Im actually suggesting that in the case of some of the larger game releases, it could be both. The console would definitely require it should the always on rumours turn out to be true,
This is no different to playing BF3 in MP mode at the moment.
You need to be online with XBL gold, you need EA servers to be online
to get to the MP section. You need the dedicated servers to be online to play the game.

Agreed, from the rumours this would be the same with SP and it would be annoying if something out of your control was stopping you play "offline".
There is no benifit to the end user for always online other than game updates could be done whilst you was at work/school/dole office.

There's no listed genuine downside either other than you can't play if the internet goes down.
Which to rehighlight the point earlier could be less stable than some electricity suppliers.

But quite frankly, you're not going to stop them, if the rumour prove true.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 10:33   #12
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They could actually use always online to push up the price of the games. Microsoft already charge publishers for the 360 a fucking fortune if they need to patch something. now with the always online service it wouldn't surprise me if they force publishers and devs to use microsofts own servers and services for the online part, meaning they can charge some extortionate fee. This all on top of the monthly fee that M$ will charge for the player base to use the always online system to its fullest and still have fucking adverts crammed down your throat.

Always online is great if its going to offer something to the users that the old system can't but I can't see one single thing that can be offered that the current 360 does not do. My 360 is like a fucking advert dispenser since they did the shitty metro update. It's actually quite annoying to try and find what your looking for without having to swim through a see of netflix and music adds.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 10:37   #13
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But quite frankly, you're not going to stop them, if the rumour prove true.
No. We'll leave that to the development community within which not a fuck is currently being given for XBL.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 10:41   #14
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It makes sense now why Microsoft dumped the indie dev community hard on it's arse for the current 360. Indie devs just don't fit in Microsoft's vision of rapeing tons of cash from everything that passes its always online system.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 10:46   #15
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No. We'll leave that to the development community within which not a fuck is currently being given for XBL.
What's the story there? Given PSN is going to be a premium service I'm not sure why they'd specifically ignore XBL?
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 11:10   #16
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If you're not going to buy a new Xbox, why spend so much time and effort in arguing something that doesn't effect you ?
Why did I argue for the rights of gay people to get married? Im not gay and it certainly wouldnt affect me if they were or were not allowed to get married. Look, Im not equating the 2 arguments. One is a serious human rights issue and the other one isnt (gaymarriageamirightlololol), but asking me why I care about something that doesnt affect me directly is a silly question. To reverse the argument, why are you arguing FOR the always on DRM if you believe it wont affect you?

Besides, if Xbox gamers show that they dont really care about the DRM, it could infest other gaming platforms.

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You are out the loop with servers, its working very similar if not the same as PC gaming over several games.
Dedicated servers hosted by the game publisher or user defined dedicated servers hosted by the publisher.



This is no different to playing BF3 in MP mode at the moment.
You need to be online with XBL gold, you need EA servers to be online
to get to the MP section. You need the dedicated servers to be online to play the game.
Thats a different argument. Ive already said that theres nothing wrong with an online multiplayer game requiring an internet connection. What Im against, is requiring an internet connection for single player games. If I owned BF3 and I REALLY wanted to play it, but couldnt as my internet was down, I could theoretically still play the single player game. Same with COD. If my internet connection is down and I wanted to play Diablo 3, Sim City or Assassins Creed 2, I couldnt do that.

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But quite frankly, you're not going to stop them, if the rumour prove true.
Nope, Im not. Certainly not on here. Even if they were to take notice, its a little late in the game for them to change their plans. Theyre a little over a month away from the reveal and now have to push for their console to be out at around the same time as the PS4. Its too late to make any major changes.

Does that really mean we cant discuss it though?


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It makes sense now why Microsoft dumped the indie dev community hard on it's arse for the current 360. Indie devs just don't fit in Microsoft's vision of rapeing tons of cash from everything that passes its always online system.
Its the other way around. Indie devs dont care about developing for XBL due to the publishing costs. Ive heard charges of up to $50k being quoted to publish a patch on XBL. Compare that to Steam where a developer can post updates for either no cost, or very low cost.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:09   #17
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What's the story there? Given PSN is going to be a premium service I'm not sure why they'd specifically ignore XBL?
http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...-xbox-silence-

Seems as much about what Sony is doing as what MS isn't. But obviously the larger publishers and titles aren't going anywhere. I guess what defines your interest in the platform is what area of gaming you're interested in. AAA or innovation? I can't see much overlap.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:14   #18
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http://penny-arcade.com/report/artic...-xbox-silence-

Seems as much about what Sony is doing as what MS isn't. But obviously the larger publishers and titles aren't going anywhere. I guess what defines your interest in the platform is what area of gaming you're interested in. AAA or innovation? I can't see much overlap.
Yeah, PSN has really come into its own in the last 12 months. Guacamelee looks like the latest in a long string of top class independent stuff. Flower was shit though

Aside from that PS+ is ridiculously good value, I don't know how they can possibly transfer it over to the PS4 though.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:14   #19
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What Im against, is requiring an internet connection for single player games. If I owned BF3 and I REALLY wanted to play it, but couldnt as my internet was down
This is the main arguement for everyone against it.
That wouldn't be MS's fault if YOUR internet connection went down.

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To reverse the argument, why are you arguing FOR the always on DRM if you believe it wont affect you?
At the moment its a rumour, its creating a lot of talk about the 720.
Internet warriors are all on the band wagon trying to defeat the worry of always on DRM.

I doubt very much that MS will use AO-DRM at this current launch stage. There's far to much money being lost by lack of internet in areas.
They'll back out or refuse it as rumour at the last minute making the whole console so much more rightous etc etc...

God knows why I'm replying. For every internet warrior, there's a defender. it makes no diference to me DRM or no DRM.
I'll buy the 720 because the pro's out way the cons. I'll live with its flaws the same as I lived with the 360's flaws.
But still I'll be happy to plug n play at a FPS and if my internet is down I'll go watch tele with the wife or do somethign else...
Internet gaming doesn't make me rage "OMG, no service...RAH!!1!1!"
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:15   #20
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Also, Indie Game: The Movie is ace. Even if Blow comes across as a tool.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:25   #21
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:29   #22
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MS haven't exactly rushed out to crush the rumour though. If this really wasn't on the cards I'd have expected some slightly more strident statements from some of the more informed press members. I'd guess this is still up in the air.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:36   #23
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Are they really calling it the 720? Tits.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:36   #24
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At the moment its a rumour, its creating a lot of talk about the 720.
Internet warriors are all on the band wagon trying to defeat the worry of always on DRM.
Not that I'm aligning directly with Minty here - but like it's worked out SO WELL previously.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:44   #25
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This is the main arguement for everyone against it.
That wouldn't be MS's fault if YOUR internet connection went down.
And again, it WOULD be their fault for requiring internet access for something that does not benefit from that access. People make internet connected microwaves and ovens, but those devices still work if your internet goes down.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:50   #26
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I can't remember the last time my Internet went down tbh.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:54   #27
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Your router can.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 12:55   #28
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22nd December for me, along with my TV service. I phoned Virgin who said that there were no problems reported in the area, it was a problem with me specifically and they would have to send an engineer out after Christmas. It later turned out to be an area problem and the problem was fixed a little more quickly than expected, but I still had to wait until Christmas Eve for an internet connection. Had I not had any DRM free games (Or books. I read a lot of books those 2 days) I would have been very bored, as I couldnt even get my Steam games to work, despite using offline mode.
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 13:15   #29
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I can't remember the last time my Internet went down tbh.
I can't remember the last time "anything" went down tbh.

;-)
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Old 09-Apr-2013, 13:21   #30
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