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Old 18-Jun-2017, 11:07   #121
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Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
Can someone explain why we're blaming the conservatives?
1A) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-6285238.html

1B) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...anned-10631454

1C) http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...ll-pre-packed/ (article 2-3 years old showing a reputable firm)

2) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795586.html

3-75) The 72 MPs who were registered as deriving income from property of over 10,000 a year and who voted against the law, were as follows:

Nigel Adams

Stuart Andrew

Victoria Atkins

Jake Berry

James Berry

Bob Blackman

Robert Buckland

Alun Cairns

David Cameron

Alex Chalk

James Cleverley

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown

Therese Coffey

Geoffrey Cox

Mims Davies

Philip Davies

Richard Drax

James Duddridge

Alan Duncan

Philip Dunne

Jane Ellison

George Eustice

Mike Freer

Richard Fuller

John Glen

Robert Goodwill

Chris Grayling

Dominic Grieve

Chris Heaton-Harris

Peter Heaton-Jones

George Hollingberry

Kevin Hollinrake

Philip Hollobone

Nick Hurd

Stewart Jackson

Margot James

Sajid Javid

Joseph Johnson

Simon Kirby (teller)

Greg Knight

Brandon Lewis

Julian Lewis

Craig Mackinlay

Tania Mathias

Karl McCartney

Anne Marie Morris

Sheryll Murray

Robert Neill

Sarah Newton (teller)

Jesse Norman

David Nuttall

Neil Parish

Owen Paterson

Rebecca Pow

Jeremy Quin

Jacob Rees-Mogg

Laurence Robertson

Julian Smith

Royston Smith

Mark Spencer

John Stevenson

Desmond Swayne

Derek Thomas

Anne-Marie Trevelyan

Andrew Turner

Shailesh Vara

Theresa Villiers

Ben Wallace

David Warburton

Craig Whittaker

John Whittingdale

Nadhim Zahawi


really need to go on?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 11:30   #122
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Lord knows I'm no fan of the Tories, but the landlord thing strikes me as a huge red herring. ~240 other Tories who aren't landlords also voted against that policy.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 11:32   #123
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Originally Posted by Inertiaman View Post
Well, if you don't want to be the lightning rod for anti-austerity sentiment, don't be leader of the Tory party and PM in 2017!
Well yes, I don't think any of the aspiring successors are crying too many tears that she's acting as a bit of a shock absorber for all of this. There's no prospect of her leading the party into another election, so I suspect Boris et al are happy to let her bounce along.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 11:46   #124
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Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were threatened with legal action for raising alarm about fire safety.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795586.html
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 12:04   #125
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Originally Posted by cunning-stunt View Post
Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were threatened with legal action for raising alarm about fire safety.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795586.html

point 2) in my post
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 12:15   #126
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Originally Posted by wooly-back-jack View Post
point 2) in my post
Sorry mate, missed that one.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 14:54   #127
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http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/govern...-6713967/#mv-a

In February this year, ministers posted on a government website details of their ‘anti-red tape’ agenda on new-build properties.

In a separate report fire safety inspections, the Conservatives said, had been reduced for some companies from six hours to just 45 minutes.

The move, titled Cutting Red Tape, was part of the Tory plans to abolish a ‘health and safety’ culture that they claimed was hurting money-making businesses.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 15:58   #128
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This doesn't look good.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795696.html
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 16:12   #129
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Et tu Philip?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 16:14   #130
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The sprinkler point is an interesting one as well.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 16:18   #131
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 16:58   #132
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I want to see the investigation into why cheaper cladding was used, because I cannot believe someone holding a budget was presented with an explicit choice between saving 5k on a 8,600k project and decided to save 0.05% with a dramatically increased fire risk.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 17:10   #133
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^^ this. The alternative that it's just a whipped-up bollocks-fest and that would be just ridiculous!
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 17:25   #134
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Can we not reference Jonathan Pie, whilst the guy is funny I feel we're moving beyond him being a comedian and its turning into him being some form of spokesperson.

Orange; you're entirely right, speaking from experience I wouldn't have given two fucks for such a minimal additional spend on a budget like that. It's such an insignificant saving.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 17:37   #135
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Kensington council has 270m in reserve funds - a fireproof cladding alternative for Grenfell would cost only 5000 more than the flammable kind - sprinkler system 200,000

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7795411.html
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 17:49   #136
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This is in danger of descending into virtue signalling; sod the causes of the fire, to hell with any lack of causation, let's just blame the government of the right-now for allowing cladding that may actually turn out to be illegal, and publicly grieve for the poor and compulsorily acquire the homes of the rich whilst continuing to give them free childcare, a free bus pass and a winter fuel allowance because to remove those would be abhorrent.

I remember laughing at this sort of politics 10-15 years ago when it primarily originated from those continental European nations where the stifling heat had clearly gone to their heads. How sad it's now afflicted us; perhaps it would be best if this heatwave quickly ran its course.

Last edited by andy; 18-Jun-2017 at 17:51.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:05   #137
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So you're blaming climate change?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:08   #138
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It's got about as much to do with why that tower went up in flames as most of the other BS being posted.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:10   #139
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After all the evidence so far, how can you not blame the government?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:12   #140
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Which government? May? Was it the government from 2010? Was it Blair's / Brown's fault? Why did that tower go up - was it because the proper building regulations were not in place or was it because the cladding insulation was actually illegal for buildings of that height - in that case was it not the fault of the contractor/sub-contractor? Who signed that off? Why?

Literally a bunch of questions that need to be investigated before anyone can be blamed - unless of course we're apportioning blame for just being evil and austerity driven, having a second home (like most MPs) or just once mentioning that you're against bureaucratic H&S red tape out of this context, in which case yes the government are clearly to blame.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:17   #141
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point 1B) in my post
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:20   #142
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Which government? May? Was it the government from 2010? Was it Blair's / Brown's fault? Why did that tower go up - was it because the proper building regulations were not in place or was it because the cladding insulation was actually illegal for buildings of that height - in that case was it not the fault of the contractor/sub-contractor? Who signed that off? Why?

Literally a bunch of questions that need to be investigated before anyone can be blamed - unless of course we're apportioning blame for just being evil and austerity driven, having a second home (like most MPs) or just once mentioning that you're against bureaucratic H&S red tape out of this context, in which case yes the government are clearly to blame.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:25   #143
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None of that is evidence - would any of the 'cut' regulations have made a difference in this case? You won't know, because the full cause of the fire is still being investigated.

It's circumstantial puff pieces.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:49   #144
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Has there been any evidence?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:53   #145
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Corbyn talking absolute shit about requisitioning property "in an emergency", as if that administrative process is going to be any quicker. Not to mention which councils can fund either the CPOs or the legal costs.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 18:58   #146
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That's a good way of throwing shade at the scandalous amount kg investment property in London without looking like a commie though isn't it. Couple of thousand empties in just that borough?
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 19:11   #147
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Too early to call that one I think, public in favour of the policy but I'm not sure that'll hold for him over time. Better than just coming straight out with what he really thinks of course
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 19:15   #148
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That's a good way of throwing shade at the scandalous amount kg investment property in London without looking like a commie though isn't it. Couple of thousand empties in just that borough?
Still sounds like a Commie to me.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 19:17   #149
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It's not communist to want to pressurise absent owners out of a superheated housing market.
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Old 18-Jun-2017, 19:28   #150
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Property is theft and all that.
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