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Old 30-Jun-2017, 09:15   #241
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Originally Posted by Orange View Post
The missing + confirmed list is sub-100. None of which particularly matters, just awful regardless.
I have a gut feeling that's far too low, the fact the authorities are being coy about the overall scale I think means they found far more than they can account for.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 09:40   #242
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I really don't. They're being coy because they just don't know, it must be fucking horrific up there and they've over-estimated deaths in the past.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 09:49   #243
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They're being quite explicit about their maths:

http://news.met.police.uk/news/updat...sington-246230

- 18 people dead or missing from the 106 flats they've been able to contact at least 1 person from
- 23 flats where thy haven't been able to contact anyone, and for whom they're assuming everyone present died
- Another 61 missing from those flats based on what they know (tenant lists, who's not turned up school or work, 999 calls from those flats on the night, people reporting friends missing etc)
- So call it 3 people per flat, which doesn't strike me as a crazy number
None of which can be confirmed because it's all been complete incinerated.

There's no conspiracy here, it's just hard. Maybe the death toll of 79 gets higher or lower, I doubt dramatically so either way, but I don't think anyone's hiding anything.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 10:49   #244
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Cladding was changed to a cheaper version

Looks like blame moved back to the council and the Housing Association.

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Old 30-Jun-2017, 10:53   #245
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404 link no existo.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 10:53   #246
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I'm really not sure any shifting of blame makes sense until there's been a proper investigation.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 10:57   #247
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Link fixed.

Reading the story, it seems to come back to the council / HA demanding changes to the procurement to introduce cost savings from what was originally proposed. Does mean there will be a formal Change Notice somewhere from the Council/HA to the supplier requiring the change from Zinc to Aluminium.

BBC Coverage of same The BBC News link shows the leaked document which likely forms part of the change notice.

In other news: The supplier has threatened to sue the council leader for her remarks blaming them as well.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:00   #248
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Perhaps a bit morbid and shows my ignorance of such things but I'm a little surprised that it isn't possible to identify whether something is a burnt body or not. It was clearly a big fire that went on for a long time but I suppose it must have been at a temperature which could completely incinerate a body - even if that were close to the outside edge / windows which I assume where people would have eventually collapsed.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:03   #249
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40% of WTC victims were never identified, if that's any guide.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:04   #250
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Although obviously that was all made-up and feeds into the conspiracy theory for a special kind of lunatic.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:13   #251
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Also WTC was a fire accelerated by jet fuel - surely this didn't burn as hot but I'm completely out of my depth here so just minded to let them get on with it and report accurately.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:18   #252
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Well that and the building also collapsed. Grenfell is structurally intact.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:24   #253
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Don't forget the thermite, jet fuel can't melt steel beams!
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 12:57   #254
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don't forget the suspicious collapse of the 3rd building through controlled demolition!!!!
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 13:37   #255
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I really have very little to add other than the repeating the Met's comments about the destruction of DNA due to the intensity of the fire. But yes, just let them get on with it and report accurately.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 16:57   #256
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 17:25   #257
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Councillor showboating on the back of a terrible tragedy is fucking disgraceful, no doubt he will be hailed as a hero... because 'mob justice' forget the fact that a fucking public inquiry is ongoing as pointed out by the councillor they cant speak freely.

but yeah by all means cheer the councillor as a hero.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 18:46   #258
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Council leader quits.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7817396.html
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 19:00   #259
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Feilding-Mellen gone too right after.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 20:16   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0cked View Post
Councillor showboating on the back of a terrible tragedy is fucking disgraceful, no doubt he will be hailed as a hero... because 'mob justice' forget the fact that a fucking public inquiry is ongoing as pointed out by the councillor they cant speak freely.

but yeah by all means cheer the councillor as a hero.
Even May's spokesperson said the meeting should have continued, but you keep on grinding that axe.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 20:21   #261
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Yes lung politicians playing Politics.
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 20:28   #262
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i've seen that at least one tower in Germany has been evacuated for safety for using the same materials
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Old 30-Jun-2017, 22:26   #263
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Council meetings have always been public, it was complete bollocks.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 00:10   #264
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Agree about public, disagree about it being bollocks.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 10:00   #265
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Quote:
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Councillor showboating on the back of a terrible tragedy is fucking disgraceful, no doubt he will be hailed as a hero... because 'mob justice' forget the fact that a fucking public inquiry is ongoing as pointed out by the councillor they cant speak freely.

but yeah by all means cheer the councillor as a hero.
Im trying going to work out who is cheering him. I don't know of anyone, regardless of political leanings, who don't think that the council have been a terrible shambles in all this.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 10:03   #266
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And even if people are getting emotional about it, they've every bloody right to.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 11:52   #267
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Sorry, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm defending the council or suggesting in any way that they have not been an utter shambles in this. Quite the opposite, I personally think it will come out that the council cut costs on the refurbishment and we're likely warned of the increased risk associated with the swap from Zinc Cladding to Aluminium Cladding.

That said however, I do think the councillor depicted in the video, as well as the May's spokesperson are playing politics with a tragedy by showboating. All of them are aware of the public inquiry and of the limited freedom they have to make comment, the Councillors comments infront of cameras is either politics, or a stupid comment his limited awareness of the impact.
May's spokesperson is the same.

Accepting of Orange's point above around Council meetings.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 14:49   #268
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Add Javid to your list too, Shocked.
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Old 01-Jul-2017, 18:03   #269
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He's resigned? I can't see a story about that?

Oh I see, he's made comments.
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Old 02-Jul-2017, 18:09   #270
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Tests on cladding from 181 high rises in 51 councils have failed, including 20 in Manchester, 29 in Salford. Still 100% fail rate.
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